Amanda Hyndman, Chief Operating Officer of Mandarin Oriental: Redefining Luxury from the Inside Out

Imagine walking through the gilded corridors of a legendary hotel—where service feels like an art form, and every guest isn’t just remembered, but known. 

Amanda Hyndman has helped shape one of the world’s most admired hotel brands. Beginning her journey with Mandarin Oriental nearly 20 years ago as a general manager, she has built meaningful, memorable guest experiences. Her 2023 appointment as Chief People & Culture Officer underscored Mandarin Oriental’s belief that its people are key stakeholders in the luxury experience. And now, as Chief Operating Officer, she oversees the entire guest journey across continents, blending intuition with precision, and heritage with innovation. 

In this episode, Amanda reveals the three essential components of true luxury. Tune it to discover how to embed more “TLC” into every customer experience: 

• Time – the freedom to simply be 
• Locale (shelter) – a setting where you feel safe, seen, and at ease 
• Care – receiving what your heart desires before you even ask 

Video and audio production: Jaison Jose of Cocoon Media 

The “Distinguished” podcast is produced by Boston University School of Hospitality Administration. 

Host: Arun Upneja, Dean
Producer: Mara Littman, Executive Director of Strategic Operations and Corporate Relations
Research and Content Creation: Lu Lan
Editing: Isabella Laikin
Sound Engineer: Andrew Hallock

Music: “Airport Lounge" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0

Transcript

Welcome & Guest Introduction: Amanda Hyndman and Mandarin Oriental

SPEAKER_00 0:06

Imagine walking through the gilded corridors of a legendary hotel where history whispers from the walls and every guest is not just remembered but known. Now imagine being the person responsible for orchestrating that magic. Not just in one city, but across a global brand synonymous with elegance, grace, and timeless hospitality. Today's guest is someone who has not only led iconic properties like the Mandarin Oriental Bangkok and Hong Kong, hotels that define the very meaning of luxury, but has also shaped the future of hospitality from the inside out. Amanda Hindman began her journey with Mandarin Oriental as a journal manager, creating unforgettable guest experiences. But her story didn't stop at operations. She was appointed Chief People and Culture Officer, a move that signaled just how seriously the brand takes its own people as stakeholders in the luxury experience. And now, as chief operating officer, she oversees the entire guest journey across continents, blending intuition with precision and heritage with innovation. This is a conversation about luxury, but not just the marble lobbies and Michelin-starred menus. It's about emotional intelligence and leadership, about creating culture with the same care as cocktails, and about the unseen human moments that turn a stay into a story. Amanda Heintman doesn't just run hotels, she curates legacies. And today she joins us to talk about the future of luxury one unforgettable moment at a time. Amanda, welcome to the school and our podcast.

Redefining Luxury: It's in the Eye of the Beholder

SPEAKER_01 1:52

Thank you very much. It's great to be here.

SPEAKER_00 1:54

So let's first start with what is luxury. It used to mean exclusivity, used to mean opulence, and even inaccessibility. How do you define luxury today? And has that definition evolved with your leadership journey?

SPEAKER_01 2:12

I think luxury is a little bit like beauty. It's in the eye of the beholder. And I think there's different times and different occasions when it means something very, very different to us. You know, I've always used the analogy that anybody can build a beautiful hotel. But the thing that really makes the difference is the people and the passion and their engagement and how special they make us feel. And I've been in places that are perhaps a little bit older where I've had incredible experiences. And likewise, there's also properties with gold-plated bath taps, but they have no soul. I think, you know, the opportunity and the skill in our profession is to recognize the individual and the the reason why they're traveling, and through emotional intelligence, to be able to recognize what they need in that moment to make it special and to really truly get over and above, to meet and exceed their expectations and to create memories that are going to stay with them forever.

Personalization and the Intangible Elements of Modern Luxury

SPEAKER_00 3:09

I'm going to come back to this, but this is very interesting where you talk about uh it's the people in the hotel that are going to make the difference. And you're absolutely right, anyone can build a beautiful hotel, but it's the people that are going to make the difference. So on that theme, um, we hear a lot about personalization and experience over products.

SPEAKER_01 3:31

So, in your view, what are the intangible elements that truly define modern luxury for me it's something around time, um, because time is something that constantly passes without spending, um, without stating the obvious, but also is something that we can't buy, and it's about creating those moments. Um, and I think something very fundamental, they say human beings need shelter. I think we need to feel safe and secure in our environment. Now that's not being intimidated by some terribly posh place, or in the old days by the doorman looking down his nose to see how you were dressed. It's about colleagues having the emotional intelligence to recognize what your needs are and to be able to then craft the experience and elevate the experience to make that meaningful to you at that time. And that's totally different if you're in a family reunion, if you're on a romantic moment or a business meeting. But it's it's recognizing it's being able to pick up the cues and then translate them into not only uh a genuine experience, but to make that more bespoken, more individual.

The Legendary Quality Experience: NLP and Service Culture

SPEAKER_00 4:43

Now, this is very interesting, but in um in the world of hospitality education, there are very few places that teach you that that aspect of hospitality where you're picking up on the needs of the guests. So I guess this must be a magic that you do at the Mandarin.

Kindness as a Core Value: Moving Past Appearances

SPEAKER_01 5:02

I wouldn't have said it's necessarily magic, but I think it's something that we're very attuned to. And our service culture is called the legendary quality experience, and that was actually written around NLP, neurolinguistic programming. And you know, I remember when I first moved to London, I had my career in Scotland, and I went to London, it was like a five-star boys club, and they said, Oh, you know, you can't come in, you're female and you're in a four-star hotel. And it sounds really, really crazy, but I think also, as I mentioned earlier, in the past people were judged by appearances. Um, and you know, I've had some instance in my career where you have a bit of a come to Jesus moment and you realize there's something more fundamental than that. And you know, from the old days in Bangkok when we used to stand in the lobby like Kurt Vac Vital to meet the guests, you can't judge people by appearances. You know, that the person in a ripped tracksuit with a skateboard under their arm and wearing slippers could have come on a private jet. And frankly, the guy in the three-piece suit carrying a briefcase might be stealing handbags. And I think the pandemic really taught us this whole thing about appearances. And, you know, through some life-changing moments in in my career, I we started using the word kindness, that we wanted to be known for kindness. And people looked at me like I was a bit mad, like, no, no, no, we're five-star luxury, what are you talking about kindness? But I think, you know, kindness is recognizing that every guest has a choice. They don't have to stay with us, they can stay wherever they want. And by the way, the same goes for our colleagues. Our colleagues have a choice. You know, to go off the subject, we used to talk about the war on talent. It's over, it's finished. Talent won, right? So I think this kindness and being able to put yourself in someone else's shoes, and particularly during COVID, because you couldn't see their mouth, right, to see their eyes and to take those cues and be able to craft the moment is something that I would like to think our colleagues are becoming better at, but it's something that we can always deliver at a more consistent um standard of service.

Training Colleagues to See Beyond First Impressions

SPEAKER_00 7:03

You know, to make judgments about people by looking at them, by the shoes they're wearing, the dress, the clothes, is human nature. So what does it take for you to get the colleagues to say, okay, we don't we are not going to do that at the Mandarin? It must take a lot of effort.

From HR to Chief People Officer: Reframing the Role

SPEAKER_01 7:20

Yes, of course. But I think it's something that, you know, generally our colleagues in learning and development and people and culture, we're talking about culture, right, right? I mean, I go off the subject again. I used to joke that HR stood for human remains. And when I was offered the job, I said, I don't want to be the chief HR officer. And James Riley said to me, You said you wanted this job. I said, I don't want to do HR, I want to be the chief people officer. Because, you know, people are at the heart of everything we do, and culture is about the environment that we create. And if we can look into somebody's eyes, I mean, it's an old story, but you know, the guest is screaming and shouting at the front desk. And my colleagues come to me and say, This guest is so rude and so angry and so upset. I'm like, okay, so let's think about the guest. Maybe he's just been on a long haul flight, maybe he's frightened of flying, maybe he's got a terminal illness, maybe his wife's having an affair, maybe his children are sick. It's our job to put him in a better place and not to judge his clothing. And you know, we have people who are extraordinarily wealthy and successful and stay in our hotels, but we have people that save up for a whole year to come for afternoon tea. We have people who may have very serious illnesses, who come to have a beautiful moment with a member of their family. And I find that incredibly humbling. I wasn't born in a palace, I didn't have butlers. You know, you saved up for a special occasion, and we have to recognize that next to the multi-tulti billionaires in the private jets, we've got people that are using their own hard earned money to have a special experience. And I think they really deserve our respect and appreciation for that.

Operations and People & Culture as One

SPEAKER_00 8:56

Now it's it's telling that you evolved from operations into, like you said, uh with James Riley, you said you want to be the people and culture officer. And then after that, you're back to being in you're back in operations essentially. Now you're the CEO. So clearly, through your through our conversation and through your own journey, it's very clear that Mandarin places a lot of emphasis on the team, the colleagues that you have, as much as the guests that are coming in.

Choosing the Right Colleagues and Growing Them from Within

SPEAKER_01 9:27

I have a view that, you know, we we talk about our colleagues being our most important asset. Without our colleagues, we are nothing. They got us here and they will take us into the future. Now, you know, we could talk all day about recruitment, but we have to choose the right people to join Mandarin Oriental who have the right spirit, who have kindness and humility and want to be part of our family. I mean, colleagues say to me, Amanda, we've got so many vacancies. I'm like, yeah, I know. And there's hundreds of people that want to work for us. And you know, we don't want them because we have to choose the right people. And when we have chosen the right people, you know, we need to grow and develop them in line with the needs of the business. A lot of people come to me and say, Hey Amanda, I want more money. I'm like, sure, why do you want more money? And they say, because I worked here for three years. And you have to say, Look, I'm sorry, we don't pay based on length of service, but I can pay you more money if you can do a bigger job. So if you're a commi chef and you can become a chef de party, if you're a waiter, you can become a supervisor. Because if you can pay somebody more money, that changes their life and it changes their family's life. So if we can grow our own colleagues internally, that's something very, very powerful. And beyond that, we have to create a culture of recognition and appreciation. I mean, we all like to be thanked. My boss doesn't thank me very often, but when he does, you know, you know, it feels great. An army marches on its stomach. We need decent food in the colleague restaurant, we want our colleagues to look amazing, we need proper changing rooms. All of those things go to creating a meaningful colleague experience. And if we've done all of those things, you never guess what, we might deliver efficient service, the guests might be delighted, um, the colleagues might be happy, the guests might come back and we might make money. But we're never gonna make money, and the guests are never gonna come back, and we're never gonna deliver great service unless that whole colleague experience is taken very seriously and is at the starting point and the heart of everything we do. So I was always an operator, but I figured out a long time ago this thing about the colleagues, and yeah, I was never very good at finance and marketing. I never worked in rooms, I never worked in engineering, I never worked in kitchen. But all I knew was about supervising colleagues and then managing colleagues and then leading colleagues. So it doesn't matter if you do rooms or F and B or marketing, it's about learning leadership. So people want to follow you. And I truly believe that's the game changer. So I'm back where I always was in operations. People and culture was great, but operations and people and culture are transformation. So that's why I'm here.

Building and Sustaining Culture at Mandarin Oriental

SPEAKER_00 12:05

So is this um uh the the culture that you have at Mandarin? Um, do you have to work at it? Do you sort of upfront decide this is what the culture we should have, and then you make efforts to make sure that you get there?

SPEAKER_01 12:17

I think Mandarin Oriental has always had a culture, but at the same time it evolves, you know, the world changed, and we've got to change as well. And for me, the most important thing is to create a safe and respectful and inclusive culture. So I was bullied at school. Now I don't mean violently, but girls are narcity, right? Psychological cruelty. And I cannot bear bullying. It just absolutely bores me. And you know, I joke a little bit, I'll be in trouble again with Marcus, that you know, the guys in the white coats, the chefs, used to scream and shout and threaten. You know what? The chefs are actually much better than they used to be. But there is still sometimes unfortunate behavior whereby people think it's okay to scream and shout. It is not okay to scream and shout. So we've recently redefined our values because we're on this transformation journey. And at the heart of it, it's about being exceptional, not just for our guests, but also for our colleagues, but creating opportunities for growth, as I just mentioned, and respect and trust and teamwork. And we believe that that translates at all levels of the organization, whether you're the CEO or you know, whether you're an operational colleague. And if we can live and act by those values, we will build a culture that nurtures our talent and where people want to stay and they feel safe and secure.

How Internal Culture Shapes External Identity

SPEAKER_00 13:39

So um I mean it's the question I was gonna ask is that um investment in people, and you said it may translate into the kind of guest experience that you're fair with. And it obviously translates into making money for the company. Um But the question is um how much do you think this internal culture is part of your external identity?

SPEAKER_01 14:06

I think it's it's absolutely at the heart of everything we do because it's the way we we treat our each other, it's the way we treat our guests, it's the way we treat the community, our owners, our stakeholders. It's our DNA, it's who we are. It's absolutely fundamental. There's beautiful hotel companies with gorgeous hotels that don't have the culture. And I think there's also two-star and three-star and four-star operators that have good culture and have a good DNA, but it it's it's it's got to be the foundation because at the end of the day, it's informing your behavior and the decisions that you take and the way you're perceived internally and externally.

Culture as the Foundation Across All Hotel Categories

SPEAKER_00 14:46

It's incredible the amount of effort you're placing on the culture and team and the colleagues. DNA. And what about, let's say, extracting out uh into the entire, let's say, the luxury brands, or even not just luxury brands, but any company, I'm assuming you think it's is should be the same in all other places as well.

Heritage, Asian Roots, and Being Masters of Craft

SPEAKER_01 15:08

I think when you look at the successful organizations, they they have a culture that they've determined. Now, I think we all know there might be an external culture and an internal culture. And it's interesting, uh a very famous um luxury retailer said that every luxury brand needs a heritage. And you know, we've taken our heritage very seriously and we've kind of put it at the heart of the culture to talk about our dual Asian roots. And I certainly believe that Asian hospitality is very elegant and very sophisticated. So, from our original founding hotels in Bangkok and Hong Kong, you know, this is something that we're weaving into our story and it's become part of our DNA. And we've said we want to be masters of craft, so really recognizing the craftsmanship that goes into cocktails or culinary or bed making, but also shapers of culture, which is about the way we act, but also the impact that we have on our communities and where we operate, you know, outside the four walls.

The Transformation Strategy: Doubling in Size in 10 Years

SPEAKER_00 16:08

Okay, so um I hear all about the culture. I'm also curious to know what else do you have in mind in in terms of your um regime as the chief operating officer? What what kind of changes are you overseeing in the company or the internal operations?

SPEAKER_01 16:26

Well, we we are on a transformation strategy. Um our new CEO and the leadership team determined the strategy one year ago, and we said that you know we wanted to transform Mandarin Oriental by unfolding our full potential and unfolding using the fan as you know the way to explain that. And so we've set a very ambitious growth target to double in size in the next 10 years. So that you know, my role is to drive transformation, but most importantly, to bring the colleagues with me, right? Because people, you know, aren't always so confident with change. Um, so you know, it's about performance, and we've got to perform to deliver now, and we've got to transform for the future. And it's not either or you've got to do both at the same time, right? So I see my role as having been an operator to um take care of that messaging and bring my colleagues, whether it's general managers or area vice presidents or everybody with us, to make that something they can imagine and something that they feel they want to be part of in the future, because that will be our

Scaling Culture Across Rapid Growth

SPEAKER_01 17:32

success.

SPEAKER_00 17:32

So when you double the company size, now it takes so much effort the way you're describing each hotel, all the team. Um so how do you expect to scale up that entire culture and double it in 10 years while maintaining that culture in every single property?

SPEAKER_01 17:51

I think the culture is something very unique, and that's something that we recognize. And we were on quite a slow growth trajectory, obviously, you know, post-COVID and different challenges. But you know, if you don't change, you die. You know, so we're at the stage now that, you know, with about 40 hotels, we're too big to be small, but we're too small to be big, right? So it's about critical mass. So we did a huge piece of research into the market to see where the growth opportunities were, and we mapped the compound average growth for the different sectors, and luxury has a huge opportunity. So, you know, we have that mapped out. Now with our hotels, we were 41 at the beginning of the year, we're 43 today, we're going to be about 48 by the end of the year. We're not going to add them all at once, but it's all about growing our talent from within so that when you're opening in Timbuktu, it's a Mandarin GM. Um, if you're opening Acapulco, it's a Mandarin GM. And building the team. Now, of course, you need to have local colleagues as well for the local culture, but it's blending, it's building talent, and it's buying talent as well. And I think with the growth trajectory we've got, I think that's feasible, and we feel confident about delivering it.

Taking Over Existing Properties and Building New Capabilities

SPEAKER_00 19:04

So five hotels in I I think you mentioned five this year, right? Yes. That's incredible growth on a base of 40 to maintain that culture.

SPEAKER_01 19:14

But also, um, we're not just building new hotels, we're also taking over the management of existing hotels such as the Letesio in Paris and the Conservatorium in Amsterdam. So I think, you know, we've got the we've got the muscle internally, and it's about how we scale that. So we recognize that we need new capabilities. Um, so one, it's building capability, and two, it's scaling for growth, building in those resources for the future.

Is Luxury Becoming More Democratic?

SPEAKER_00 19:42

You know, it it seems that uh most of the luxury hotels are on this path towards expansion. And so the question is: is luxury becoming more democratic, or are we just redefining what it means to be luxury and what it means to be special?

SPEAKER_01 20:00

I think it's democratic in that it's becoming more accessible. Um, I think with the changing way of the world in terms of the working week and leisure time, the choices people making, um, thing around multi-generational travel and experience is something very important. But at the same time, I think people are looking for something more than um material items, they're looking for fulfillment. And I think it was one of the really big learnings after COVID that people were prepared to invest in those experiences where they were getting a return on investment. Um, and I so I think it goes both ways. It becomes more exclusive, depending on what you're looking for, but I think we're accessible to a much wider audience. And you look at markets such as China opening up, and that's a whole new world.

How Gen Z is Redefining Luxury and Responsible Tourism

SPEAKER_00 20:47

So you mentioned that you know, after COVID, there was clearly some you know redefining by people as to what they want, what kind of their priorities in life. And so, but it's the same thing that happens with the different generations. Each generation comes and they want to decide what you know what they consider as luxury, what the priorities are. So, what are you finding the change in this Gen Z or the new generations that are coming around? How are they viewing luxury?

SPEAKER_01 21:16

I think they're much better informed because they've got a much deeper and wider access to information. So what they're reading about on social media is informing their choices. I think there's a lot more around responsible tourism. I'm not saying everybody's going to go by boat as opposed to on a plane, but I think there's an awareness of their impact on the environment. You know, we're not building a hotel on a coral atoll on the Maldives, it sounds silly. But you know, we are partnering with developers who have responsible development and procurement values. Um I I think there's a it goes across all aspects of the spectrum, but I think certainly ultra high network of individuals, the guesting and our hotel's people who have that. That wonder lust for tourism are certainly making more responsible choices, and we need to respond to that accordingly.

Career Advice: Becoming GM at 28 and Dreaming Big

SPEAKER_00 22:07

Okay. I want to pivot to a little bit about you. And I know that you became a general manager at the age of 28. So clearly you would have had a lot of confidence in your ability, and people would have seen that. What advice would you give to your younger self about confidence, resilience, or a voice in the boardroom?

SPEAKER_01 22:29

You know, I was I was very lucky because although I went to hotel school, I didn't study very hard because I was far too busy working 40 hours a week in a bar and a restaurant. But actually, my my true passion was politics. So I was in a lot of trouble when I was a student. Quite useful for making a speech, not many technical skills. And there were people that I studied with who took it a lot more seriously than me, but they kind of didn't do as well. And what I say to everybody is your most important choice is the organization you're working for. So, you know, if you're working really hard and it's really tough and you're learning, that's okay. But if you're working really hard and it's really tough and you're not learning, you're wasting your time. So beyond choosing the right organization that's going to give you the opportunities, working for somebody who is going to give you those opportunities. And to be honest with you, I was lucky. I was in the right place at the right time. Yes, I did work hard, but people gave me those opportunities. And the other thing I say to people is I was never ready for any job I had, but somebody believed in me, right? And they say maybe when I was younger, I was more ambitious because I said I wanted to be a GM before I was 30. But then I was gifted these career moves. So I I feel very, very lucky. And if anything, I say to students, you know, if you don't believe in yourself, no one else will, right? You've got to dream big. So when I say to students, what's your career aspiration? They say, Oh, maybe to be director of rooms. I'm like, What? You know, we're here because we want you to be GM and CEO and chairman. So you've got to have that ambition, you know, aim for the stars and reach the moon or whichever way it goes. And I think that's important. And I actually wish I'd gone overseas earlier because I had my whole career in the UK because I kept getting these great career moves, and it wasn't until I joined Mandarin that I went overseas.

Lessons from Iconic Properties Around the World

SPEAKER_00 24:16

Okay, so you worked across iconic cities and legendary hotels. Um, can you talk about some things you've learned from any of those properties or different lessons from different hotels?

Hong Kong: Praise Loudly, Criticize Quietly

SPEAKER_01 24:28

When I went to um Asia for the first time, I was quite conscious. I was joining Mandarin, it was a luxury organization. Um, I'd never worked overseas before. So I I spoke to somebody I knew and I said, Hey, can you give me some advice, please? And he gave me lots of unrepeatable things. However, he said to me, and I I have it on a um a hotmail um email screenshot, um, I have one piece of advice for you, going to Asia. Praise loudly and publicly, and criticize quietly and privately. I was like, all right, okay, sounds quite sensible. So when I first went to Hong Kong, I really, really took this on board and actively practiced it, and

Washington D.C.: Trust, Community, and Turning Around Culture Scores

SPEAKER_01 25:09

it actually had great results. But what I realized very quickly, it wasn't personal to Asia, it was applicable anywhere in the world, right? So that's one that always sticks with me. When I went from Hong Kong, um, my next role was in Washington, D.C. in the US. I might say it was the biggest culture shock of my career. And, you know, it was a union environment. Um, and that was very different for me. Um, but it was really about um treating the colleagues with with great respect and dignity and recognizing their roles and also the circumstances that they were dealing with at home and building an environment of trust, which which took some time. And at that time, you know, it's no secret, we had really challenged quality scores, so let's leave it at that. Um, in fact, they were the worst quality schools in the group. And I thought, well, goodness me, I'm not running the hotel that's got the worst quality schools in the group. So we set up a huge campaign of education and team building and training all around the mission and vision and guiding principles, and we trained and we trained and we trained, and we had lots of incentives. Then I thought, this isn't really moving the needle. And um, I thought we should give back to the local community as a sort of a team builder. And so we decided to do a fundraiser. It was a 10K around the monuments, and it was a long story, but all the different departments came together and there was a bit of a competition for fundraising. And on the day we did the 10K with the children and the dogs, and um, you know, the the porters were pooling their tips, and we were doing bake sales, and guests supported us, and it was colleagues of all different age groups and different seniority. But what happened after that fundraising? It was to build a playground for the local children. The colleague engagement score went up 11 points, and then the quality score went from the lowest in the group to the second highest in one year. And the game changer was this community initiative, which is still running to this day, right? And then thirdly, I just mentioned when I went to Thailand, it's quite a unique culture, and I I read this, I read the hotel was very historic, as you know, it goes back to 1876. So I read the hotel's

Bangkok: Respecting Thai Traditions and Reading the History

SPEAKER_01 27:09

history book, and I was like, Oh, I can't remember. So I read this history book three times. So when I arrived in that hotel, I kind of knew more about the history than most people, and people said to me, Oh, it's amazing, you're the first ever female general manager. Because my predecessor was there 41 years, he was a guy. I said, No, actually, I'm the third. And they said, No, no, no, Amanda, you're the first. I said, No, read the history. Um, there were three ladies before me in the 1800s.

SPEAKER_00 27:32

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_01 27:32

But also, I followed the palace because the royal family is very, very important, highly respected in Thailand. So on Monday I wore yellow, on Tuesday I wore pink, on Wednesday I wore green, on Thursday I wore orange, on Friday I wore blue. And um some of my colleagues in the hotel said to me, You're a bit old-fashioned. But the ladies from the palace used to come up to me and say, Thank you for observing our traditions. I didn't wear a trouser suit for five years, because ladies in Thailand do not wear trouser suits, and I didn't wear black for five years until His Majesty Radman IX passed away, and I wore black every day for a hundred days. So those traditions are something that you can sneer at. But I always said to the colleagues, we are a guest in their country, and my view was that we should be very respectful of the traditions, um, and it seemed to work out okay.

Legacy: Being Remembered for Kindness and Integrity

SPEAKER_00 28:25

Fantastic. Um I know you may not be thinking yet of legacy, you still have a long runway to go. Um but when people reflect many years later, um, what would you hope they say about your leadership?

SPEAKER_01 28:44

I'd like them to say that I was kind. And I would like them to say that however difficult it was, I did the right thing. Because to me, values and integrity as a leader are something that's absolutely fundamental. I may not be very good at many aspects of my job, but you know, at the end of the day, we have to take tough calls and we have to lead by example, and that's something that's very, very important to me, more than any other material achievement.

What the Next Generation of Hospitality Leaders Must Understand

SPEAKER_00 29:08

I think that's an outstanding quality to be kind, to be remembered as someone who is very kind. Um, okay, so I have a few other closing questions for you. Um, one is what do you hope the next generation of hospitality leaders understand better than we did in our generations?

SPEAKER_01 29:26

I think that they see hospitality as a profession. I get very annoyed when I hear about the hospitality industry because I think car manufacturing is an industry. Now, you know, we we know in the past hospitality had a bad reputation. It was very long hours, it was very bad pay and bad behavior in the kitchen. Now, the hours are better than they ever were, the pay is better than it ever was, and the behavior is better than it ever was. But I would like people to see hospitality as a first choice profession as opposed to something that you do because you couldn't get into anything else.

Letting Go of Five-Star Snobbery: Humility as Strength

SPEAKER_00 29:57

That is so uh exciting. I know when I started my career, I used to work 12 hours in and at that point 12 to 14, and then have to make an excuse that okay, I've got something to do, so I'm leaving. Um but yeah, this is this is very, and I and I hope that you go give a talk to a whole lot of high school and aspiring professionals that they understand our industry. Um what is an inherited belief about luxury or leadership that you may have learned or been exposed to as you went through your career, but that you've let go over time.

SPEAKER_01 30:33

I I I mentioned earlier this sort of snobbery about five-star. Yeah, I there's no pace for it. It's nothing to do with with class, it's it it's about a an attitude and it's about energy. And you know, one of our values is around humility. And it's kind of quite interesting. You can explain humility in Asia, you try explaining it respectfully in America by humility. And it's like kindness. People think it's being weak, but it's not, it's something much, much stronger than that. So I think that you know, you you hear more about CEOs being kind and considerate, but it's not exactly the macho boardroom thing that it was in the past.

A Guest Moment That Reminded Her Why She Loves This Business

SPEAKER_00 31:10

Excellent. So, when was the last time a guest or a colleague surprised you in a way that reminded you why you loved this business?

SPEAKER_01 31:21

I'm not quite sure about the last time, but um when I was um leaving the hotel, um, I don't know why it just came into my mind. Um, I was at when I stopped being a GM and I went into the corporate office, um, I had to move out of the hotel, and I'd always lived in the hotel, so I was moving into an apartment and we were rushing all of our stuff and the luggage, and somebody pushed something into my hand. It was a little brown paper bag, and I got in the car and I opened this paper bag, and there was like a bath bomb in it. You know what a bath bomb is? Um, but there was a handwritten note that I kept, and I found it the other day, actually, which is what reminded me, and it said, I'd like to thank you from the bottom of my heart because you gave the colleagues the privilege of dining in the hotel at 50% discount, which meant my family could come and see my place of work, and I've worked here for 30 years, and I've never been able to afford it before. And it was signed off from a little person, don't try and find out who I am.

SPEAKER_00 32:26

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 32:27

Because in the old day, the senior managers used to get 50% discount, but the colleagues only got 20%. And when I got there, I was like, hang on, we're the highest paid people in the business. I want all of our line colleagues to be able to bring their family and friends and be proud. And it's something that didn't cost me anything. Um, and my senior colleagues weren't very impressed because I said, uh, you'll all be getting 50% now. But for them to be able to be proud and show their families their place of work was something that meant a lot to me.

SPEAKER_00 32:54

I'm sure, I'm sure it did. And you know, part of that, um part of that not giving them a big discount was also probably that snobbery aspect you're talking about.

SPEAKER_01 33:04

Absolutely.

Rapid-Fire Questions

unknown 33:05

Right.

SPEAKER_00 33:05

Okay. So I have some rapid-fire wrap-up questions. Each answer can be just one sentence or a word. Um favorite hotel memory, guest side or host side?

SPEAKER_01 33:22

I have a saying that you see the best of people in the worst of times. And when I think of the tough things that you have in hotels, the team always comes together and pulls through, and that's the best feeling in the whole world.

SPEAKER_00 33:34

Luxury item you will not travel without.

SPEAKER_01 33:39

Socks.

SPEAKER_00 33:40

Socks, okay. Underrated city for hospitality.

SPEAKER_01 33:46

Glasgow.

SPEAKER_00 33:48

Okay. That doesn't come to mind when I think of hospitality, but leadership quote you live or love by, or love.

SPEAKER_01 33:58

Leaders are dealers in hope. Napoleon.

SPEAKER_00 34:05

Most extravagant or thoughtful guest request you have ever fulfilled.

SPEAKER_01 34:11

Um some guests from Russia wanted to go to the Temple of Dawn. Um, so it was organized to give them private access via a cavalcade of police boats, and they presented a golden Buddha to the abbot of the temple.

SPEAKER_00 34:29

Last time you got emotional at work, except for the time when you were leaving the hotel to go to the corporate office.

SPEAKER_01 34:37

I think when colleagues, you know, recognize that you go over and above and say thank you, because we deal in such a cutthroat, fast-paced environment that when people say thank you sometimes, it's very moving.

SPEAKER_00 34:49

Proudest moment as a leader so far.

SPEAKER_01 34:55

I think being part of the transformation, um, you know, to have this huge ambition and to be bringing the colleagues with us and seeing the progress 12 months that we're making, it's it's really uplifting.

What Makes a Hotel Feel Like Home

SPEAKER_00 35:07

So you travel quite a bit, and you just we were talking before, and you said you've been out for so many weeks and can't get back to home. Uh you can't wait to get back home. So when you travel and you go into a hotel, what makes you feel at home anywhere in the world?

SPEAKER_01 35:22

Or does it I think feeling at home is it's something very primal in terms of safety and security. Um, but it's um I suppose I don't think of it as being home, but it it's somewhere where I can work and sleep, you know, in in a quiet, peaceful environment.

SPEAKER_00 35:48

Amanda, thank you so much. That was a fascinating conversation. And I truly learned a whole lot about leadership and leaders who care and uh about teamwork, and I hope people listening take all of those lessons from it. So thank you for coming today.

unknown 36:04

Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_00 36:05

If you want to join the conversation and share your thoughts and suggestions, email me at shawdeen at bu.edu. That is sha atpu.edu. This episode was produced by Mara Littman, marketing by Rachel Hamlin, research by Dr. Lan Lu, video and production by Jason Jose of Cocoon Media. Thank you to the entire team at Boston University School of Hospitality Administration. To keep up with Distinguished Podcasts, be sure to subscribe wherever you listen to your favorite podcast. You can also learn more about experience innovation in our undergraduate and graduate programs by visiting BU.edu slash hospitality. I'm Arunapneja, Dean of BU School of Hospitality, wishing you a great day and thank you for watching the podcast.