Inhospitable? Redefining Service in Luxury Hospitality with Kate Buhler, Founder and President of Profitable to Train

Kate Buhler, founder and president of Profitable to Train, is a leading expert in hospitality service excellence and profitability. With decades of experience across luxury brands including Four Seasons, Ritz-Carlton, Rosewood Hotels & Resorts, Baccarat, Peninsula, and Bulgari, Kate is known for her unique approach to training that drives both employee satisfaction and financial success. Her new book, Inhospitable: Lessons Learned from a Lifetime in Service, tackles a critical question in the industry: why is great service often so hard to come by? 

In this episode, Dean Arun Upneja engages in a thought-provoking conversation with Kate about the evolving landscape of hospitality, the critical role of the human touch in a tech-driven world, and how her “Profitable to Train” method helps businesses unlock untapped potential. Kate also shares insights on bridging generational gaps in service expectations, strategies for meaningful revenue management, and advice for rising professionals.  

The “Distinguished” podcast is produced by Boston University School of Hospitality Administration. 

Host: Arun Upneja, Dean
Producer: Mara Littman, Executive Director of Strategic Operations and Corporate Relations
Research and Content Creation: Lan Lu
Marketing: Anne Dawson
Editing: Isabella Laikin and James Leon

Music: “Airport Lounge" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0

Transcript

Welcome & Guest Introduction: Kate Buhler and Profitable to Train

SPEAKER_00 0:05

Kate Bühler is the founder and president of Profitable to Train. I'm excited to have Kate here because she not only brings a wealth of knowledge but also a refreshing perspective on hospitality. She's worked with major luxury brands such as the Four Seasons, Ritz Carlton, Rosewood Hotels and Resorts, Bacchara, Peninsula, and Bulgarie, in addition to exclusive independent properties. Kate's specialty is finding ways to increase both job satisfaction and company profitability. In her newly published book, which I have right here with me, Inhospitable, Lessons Learned from a Lifetime in Service, Kate explores the commonly asked question: why is good service so difficult to find? I'm Arunupneja, Dean of the Bugh School of Hospitality and host of the Distinguished Podcast. Welcome, Kate, and thank you for joining

The Book "Inhospitable": What Inspired It and What Leaders Should Take Away

SPEAKER_00 0:57

us.

SPEAKER_01 0:57

It is wonderful to be here. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00 1:01

Okay, so let's talk about your new book, Inhospitable. First of all, congratulations. Thank you. The title really grabs you. So what inspired you to write this and what do you hope leaders will take away from it?

SPEAKER_01 1:14

Well, I've been talking about doing it for a really long time, and I'm glad I finally, uh especially during COVID, had time to put pen to paper. But it's really I tell the story of what the hotel industry used to be like, what it's evolving into, and um what I hope that our beloved industry will become in the future. There's so many changes happening. I I sort of wanted to mark them down and uh and allow other people to have a discussion about it.

What the Hospitality Industry Has Lost and Gained Over Time

SPEAKER_00 1:43

So you're right about how ideas and expectations of service and hospitality have evolved over time. What do you think we've lost in this evolution and what do you think we've gained?

SPEAKER_01 1:53

Aaron Ross Powell Well, you know, overall, uh especially for um for mid-priced hotels, it's clear that things have become more casual. Um, in this texting world, uh people are speaking in shorthand and everything has to be super fast. But in the luxury market and in lifestyle brands, I've noticed that young people are technically waiting on people that are one to two generations older than they are. So they need to be able to communicate with people from a different generation who have different expectations. And the other thing that I've noticed, which is kind of fun, is that influencers on uh on the Internet now are talking about getting dressed up and going out for special occasions. And I'm seeing more and more young people actually want to celebrate and want to get dressed up again and um and sort of enjoy some glamour again.

Young Staff Serving Older Guests: The Generational Service Gap

SPEAKER_00 2:55

That's a good change because at some point, you know, I think over the last uh many, many years, there was this tendency to dress down and say, why you need to dress up. I mean, even airplanes, you know, growing up, you had you had to really dress very nicely. And then over time now we just go in our whatever we happen to be wearing.

SPEAKER_01 3:13

Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Pajamas, right.

Luxury Hospitality Trends: Lifestyle Brands and Global Competition

SPEAKER_00 3:15

Aaron Ross Powell So you talked about the young people serving people who are generations of a couple of generations above them. So let's dive right into the expectations of service and the trends that of uh that we see emerging in luxury hospitality space. Sure. Given that you worked with the leading brands, Peninsula for Seasons, Ritz Galton, and many others. So what kind of trends have you seen?

SPEAKER_01 3:42

Aaron Powell Absolutely. Um in the highest levels of luxury, I'm seeing companies trying to develop their brands into lifestyles. So you can purchase branded products from some of the luxury hotels. And this was something they always did a little bit on the side, but now it's really their chance to get their label out there when people are not on vacation and as conversation pieces. So I'm seeing that happen. I'm also seeing different companies trying to basically make their mark as special, unique in the industry. And that's especially hard to do right now because there is a huge competition for the top. Um there are so many new brands that are developing that have developed in the last five years. And they're creating a lot of competition. I'll say also I'm noticing that in Europe and in Asia and the Middle East, um, so really every region except for the Americas, I'm seeing really an old-fashioned competition in who can provide the most pampering, most luxurious service. And of course, the U.S. is a little bit different from that.

The High Cost of Labor in the U.S. vs. the Rest of the World

SPEAKER_00 5:00

The labor cost is here so high that it's just very difficult to provide that level of service in in the United States. That's right. I was recently in Cairo in Egypt and um speaking to the general manager of a luxury hotel there, he said my cost of service, and you know, you'll be shocked, or you may not be shocked, but a lot of people in the US would be. He said it's about 15 percent.

SPEAKER_01 5:23

Yes. And so in uh in the Middle East, or if I met a client um in Asia, um, we are talking a lot about butler service. We're talking about elevator operators, um, pages, things that have kind of gone by the wayside here in the U.S. for sure.

Butler Service, Elevator Operators, and What's Been Lost in the U.S.

SPEAKER_00 5:42

So with the high cost of labor, now we are seeing a lot of automation, we're seeing a lot of AI, so rapid rise in technology. So how do you see the future of luxury evolving, particularly in the United States, where the cost of labor is so high? Are there aspects of the human touch that technology cannot replace?

Technology in Hospitality: More Work, Not Less

SPEAKER_01 6:05

Absolutely. And actually, here's a part where I get a bit concerned, um, you know, especially in the U.S., uh starting with technology. Um, first of all, I'm an older person. I like to say older, not old, but I remember when the fax machine was really exciting. And um, back as we were watching technology get developed in the hospitality industry, we all thought it would mean actually less work for us. And boy, were we wrong. Um, what it has done, instead of giving us more time to be creative and uh and really to serve the guests more, employees are expected to take on ever more responsibilities and positions are merging together. Um I think that that's the biggest concern I have right now for the future of this industry is that if you continue to merge all of the departments together, something gets lost. AI is still finding its place in the hospitality industry. What I've seen is, you know, if a company wants to send out a generated reservation message, um, or if there's a welcome bot text coming in for a convention hotel, I think that's fine. But there's no feeling of personalization. So the things that can't get replaced, I think housekeeping, engineering, spa service, um really good food and beverage servers, and in my opinion, a great concierge still can't get replaced by uh technology, um, even though I know a lot of people will try.

Scale vs. Luxury: The Challenge of Concierge and Full-Service at Small Hotels

SPEAKER_00 7:43

Right. And interestingly, if you have a small hotel on the smaller side, if you have a hotel, you know, three, four hundred rooms or bigger, you can afford to have concierge and you can afford to have food and beverage and spa. But if you are on the smaller end, it's very hard to justify keeping a concierge or or having spa operations when you cannot do not justify, you know, the kind of uh but the larger the hotel, then the concept of luxury falls apart. So we're in this very strange world where it's very difficult to get everything right in terms of scale versus luxury

Repositioning Amenities as Value, Not Expense

SPEAKER_00 8:20

and personal touch.

SPEAKER_01 8:20

Aaron Ross Powell 100 percent, Arun. So I think you've actually touched upon the most important factor that I think will keep this industry going strong, and that is not to consider these things in luxury as amenities, but instead to consider them as the value for money that people are getting when they come to a full-service hotel. So you're correct in that a very large hotel, it's hard to uh to have luxury. But a single concierge, if they're really good at what they do and they're working, let's say, in a small resort, they can bring over a million dollars worth of business, ancillary business, spa appointments and uh and tours to the area. So actually, they should be positioned to make the property money as opposed to being an expense of a of a salary. But you're touching on something so crucial because people will say, uh, I will tell, for example, a potential client, I have a great idea. This will make your property an extra $2 million a year, and you just need to hire um an extra front desk agent. And they won't do it. And I think, well, that front desk agent is costing you $80,000. So um so we have to be mindful of spending some money, investing some money in order to be able to make money too. Aaron Ross Powell, spend money to make money, right? Aaron Ross Powell That's the truth.

Robots Delivering Toothbrushes vs. Human Touch: Where Does Luxury Fit?

SPEAKER_00 9:56

So in terms of technology, I have one other question for you, which is um so you have two equivalent hotels, both 150 rooms, and one is ultra-luxury charging, you know, thousands of dollars a day, and the other one is you know two, three hundred dollar range. But the cheaper hotel, uh when two three hundred is not cheap, but uh uh the the the lower-priced hotel has um robots that are going and delivering to the rooms. So you check in at two in the morning, you go to the go to the room and you need something. The luxury hotel says, Wow, we can't send robots to the room. And so they have to now wait for a human being to get free from some other duties to go up to the room and it might take 20 minutes, 30 minutes, where the lower price hotel just puts the toothbrush on the robot and presses the button and it goes and delivers. So now you have a cheaper hotel delivering faster service than a luxury hotel. And at that point, do I want a human touch, somebody delivering to me, or do I want it quick and right there? And to me, that is luxury, the luxury of time.

Using Technology for the Mundane, Humans for the Complex

SPEAKER_00 11:03

Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_01 11:03

Right. So um I love that example. And you know, to me, um first of all, I would love the robot. That sounds great. Uh for delivering a toothbrush, I'll take a robot any day. For the more complex, um I accidentally um uh left my passport in an airplane in Morocco. There I really want a person to help me. Uh I want somebody who, first of all, will answer the phone when I dial zero. And then I want somebody who uh knows someone who works at the airport to be able to get my passport back. So there um I'll pay a lot of money for that human touch. I think that um where we could use technology would be in the mundane. But where we need to put really skilled, amazing hospitality workers uh are on the creative. So we've kind of been doing it the opposite way around. So I'm I'm excited to see it go that way.

SPEAKER_00 12:03

Aaron Powell That's amazing treading the needle in terms of where automation and robotics can help versus um real. But by the way, is that story real that you forgot your pastor?

SPEAKER_01 12:13

It is, actually. It was really stupid. But but sure enough, the concierge was able to have the passport uh and a little chocolate waiting for me in my guest room. And while I was speaking, uh he signaled to me from the back of the room that it was all taken care of. So those are the things, right, that you just you just can't replace.

SPEAKER_00 12:35

We all need to live in hotels where we can use these guns here.

SPEAKER_01 12:39

Aaron Powell We do.

The Profitable to Train Method: How It Works

SPEAKER_00 12:40

Okay. So left shift gears a little bit. Now you developed this uh method, the profitable to train, which sounds like a fascinating approach to both service and profitability. So can you walk us through the core of this method and how it impacts the businesses you work with?

SPEAKER_01 12:55

Aaron Powell Absolutely. Um it's taken me years. I have 35 years in this industry, and it's taken me at least 25 to fully develop this concept. But the premise is simple. Uh I make sure that the employees and the managers all know what is the final goal of ownership. And when everybody understands what the game plan is, they're going to do it. So I'll walk you through a typical client. So typically I will arrive at a property, I'm going to a property in Los Angeles on a couple days, and I'm going to experience the product as a customer. And I'm not just going to look to see if they hit industry standards, although I will, but I'll also look to see: do they sell to me? Are they responsive? Are they kind? Then the next step after I've looked at it from the point of view of a customer is I analyze their data. So I think about it from an ownership point of view. Is every department as profitable as it could be? And I don't just look at saving money, because no one ever got rich saving money. I look at are they selling, and I look at what is selling. I even look at who is selling. One server in a restaurant could be selling anywhere from a half a million to a million dollars a year worth of stake in a steakhouse, for example. Sometimes I'll see two servers, they both work the exact same shifts, one selling $500,000 and one selling a million. Well, I want to know why is one person doing twice as much. So I look pretty deep into the layers of how are they making their money and what's working. And then I've looked at it from the guest point of view, from the owner's point of view. I look at it with the employees, and we do a workshop where we talk about sales techniques, we talk about strategy, and I show them their own numbers, usually for the first time. When an employee realizes how valuable they are to their own company, they make much better choices in the future. When they understand truly how a small change can completely impact uh their bottom line and their take-home pay, they make much better choices in the future. So then I finally take all of those three aspects and bring it to leadership and management. I share with them what the employees told me, what they need to be successful, and we make sure that everybody's on the same page. And it really works wonderfully.

What Happens When Employees Realize Their Own Value

SPEAKER_00 15:41

Do you ever have the situation where the employee says, oh, I am that valuable, I'm going to ask for extra money?

SPEAKER_01 15:48

I have. I've had them say, I want to get a promotion, or I've had them say, um, I feel like I should be better compensated. And I say, well, then let's look at that. Why do you think you aren't? Or if you want to get a great promotion, um, your attitude is going to go a long way towards that also. And there are many people that I trained as waiters and front desk agents that are now general managers that hire me. So I love that

The Service Generation Gap and Training Across Generations

SPEAKER_01 16:18

actually.

SPEAKER_00 16:18

Aaron Ross Powell Fantastic. Okay. So you mentioned the concept of a service generation gap. So what does that mean and how does that affect how hospitality teams should be trained?

SPEAKER_01 16:31

Absolutely. So for the employees who want to work in the detail-oriented, competitive luxury market, I make sure that they understand the expectation of people who are a couple of generations ahead of them, like 20 to 40 years older than they are. There's a lot of exceptions, of course, Arun. There are there are wealthy people who are young, but for the most part, luxury hotels have a higher average median age than a business hotel, for example. So we talk about the art of writing a thank you note, and we talk about when texting using full sentences, and I'll say, like your parents do, and they get it. I will talk about personalized touches whenever possible and how I say to them, don't just touch a guest's wallet, but also make sure you're touching their heart. I have a story for you actually. Um I will tell you, you know, years ago, um uh when I first started in the industry, I worked for a while as a butler. And um butlers uh do a lot of different things. Um, but one of the things we would do is we would open the guest suitcase, we would take Polaroid pictures of the suitcase, and um we would do that so that when we unpacked and repacked for them at the end of their stay, it looked exactly the way uh it did when it came to us. Um That is a typical example of how we can show value to our guest is when we take the time to have that one extra special touch. Uh guests appreciate it and guests come back for generations.

Privacy, Personal Touches, and the Modern Guest's Expectations

SPEAKER_00 18:23

Guests appreciated then. I'm not sure now. Will they appreciate if you're opening their suitcases and taking a detailed scan of everything that they have?

SPEAKER_01 18:33

Aaron Ross Powell Understood. Well, they have to know in advance we're going to do it. I certainly wouldn't do that without telling them first. But you know, you bring up a point. Um a lot of hoteliers are saying to me, oh, I don't think our guests even want us in the room. They want to just be left alone. And I'm not sure that that's actually true. I think most people would love twice a day room service, uh twice a day housekeeping service. And by the way, while I'm at it, they would love 24-hour room service. These are things that we're telling ourselves that the guests no longer want, or we're offering it to guests, but at an extra cost, which of course then they don't want. Um but if you want to justify that $1,000 price tag, what are you giving them besides the room to sleep in? Um and honestly, uh I think there's nothing more lovely than going out with clients or going out with friends, coming back um pretty late at night, and having your room made up for evening service. So, you know, it saves money to cut these things, but it also might just uh cause them eventually to have to cut prices too.

The Race to Cut Services and What Hotels Risk Losing

SPEAKER_00 19:53

Clearly, you are not talking about me because I put a do not disturb sign on for the duration of my stay. If it is two days, three days, there's a do-not disturb sign. I think I was in a hotel luxury property um earlier this week, and by mistake I didn't put it on. I come back, the bed is all made up, room. Yes, it did feel good, but you know, the note and the chocolate by the bedside also made a difference.

SPEAKER_01 20:17

So Interesting. Interesting. I'm learning so much about you today. Um Do you love when you come home and everything is in beautiful, pristine condition?

SPEAKER_00 20:29

Aaron Ross Powell Okay. So my question is how can hotels continue to provide service and value to the guests, not just on a pay-per-view basis, but more authentic hospitality. And you did mention hotels doing away with many of these services and then adding a lot of charges

What Differentiates a Luxury Hotel From a Short-Term Rental

SPEAKER_00 20:46

if you wanted.

SPEAKER_01 20:46

Aaron Ross Powell Yes. So as I said, you know, I worry about this race to the bottom where we've cut, cut, cut services, especially for good reason during COVID, had to cut a lot of services. But housekeeping, room service, evening service, to me, they differentiate a hotel from a short-term rental. And by the way, don't get me wrong, I love a good short-term rental sometimes. There is a place for that in the market. Um, when I travel with my family, if it's going to be a longer stay, then I'm with you. I want uh to feel at home. But if I go to a full service uh hotel, um the best executive housekeepers in the world will say to me when when I'm testing their hotel, they'll say, I want to make sure that it you can see that the housekeeper touched everything in the room. Whereas when you're in a non luxury hotel, the rule of thumb is don't touch the guest things. So if you're in an economy hotel, you don't touch the guest things at all. If you're in a luxury hotel, you touch everything in that Room and you do wherever possible a small personal touch so that the guest knows that you cared. Examples. If I have medication out near my nightstand, they automatically put a bottle of water next to it. If I went for a run and I have my sneakers out, they automatically tuck in the laces. So these are tiny little things, but they're the things that make going to a hotel special.

Revenue Management as a Human Equation

SPEAKER_00 22:28

Yeah, and these are some practices that are employed by some very high-end hotels with daily room charge that would justify that kind of expense. So you're hired by companies to increase profitability, and you mentioned that earlier, which comes down to revenue management. So we think of revenue management mostly in terms of numbers, but you think of it as more of a human equation. So can you expand on that? How do people, emotions, and guest experiences factor into your revenue strategies?

SPEAKER_01 23:00

Aaron Ross Powell Absolutely. So first of all, it doesn't matter how beautiful the building is. If the employees aren't kind and nice, I see no value in being there. So everything is dictated on emotion. Most of the properties I work with, they want me to, for example, design their front desk upselling program. That's a specialty of mine. And a typical hotel will make an additional million to $3 million a year with an upselling program just for those that aren't in rooms. When somebody has when a hotel has unsold suites, they will offer them to a checking-in guest at a special price. Now, many directors of revenue think of that, and I was a director of revenue for quite some time, they think of that as an equation, and you calculate what the prices should be. And I do that. But actually, what you also have to do is you need to tell the agents what to say, what verbiage do you use. You need to explain the reasoning behind making an emotional luxury buying decision. They have to understand the psychology of a guest, and most of these guests are quite a bit more wealthy than they are. We also need to tell them what to say when something goes terribly wrong, otherwise, they won't say it again. So all of those safeguards are to make the employee feel safe enough to ask someone for more money at check-in. And when you have the employee who's comfortable with that, then they will execute and do a beautiful job on your pricing. But you have to have both.

Protecting Your Heart While Giving Warmth: The Butler and the Difficult Guest

SPEAKER_00 24:53

Right. And you mentioned this psychology behind and making the employees feel comfortable. I think that's one of the hallmarks of our school is that we think that we are in the business of human interactions and taking care of people and providing them with good experiences. But I want to go back to something that you said in the book, which is that places of work are buildings, they're occupied by people and you're working, so don't get too attached. But then at the same time, you want the employees to be engaged and provide this amazing service, which if they are not really identifying with the company that they work with, so kind of thread the needle there. How do you reconcile those two kind of thought processes you have?

SPEAKER_01 25:40

Aaron Ross Powell Absolutely. I think I can do it best by telling a story. So while I was working as a butler, again, this is the beginning of my career, I had a regular guest who was never happy. He was just never happy with my services. He yelled all the time. He was extremely difficult. And one of the things that he would do every night is he would ask me to come to the room at 4 o'clock exactly with a bowl of warm mixed nuts. And then he would say to me on one day, Kate, I don't want any cashews. And I would have to go back and pick out all the cashews. And then the next day he'd say, you know, I really don't feel like any almonds today, and I would have to go pick them all out. And it was so annoying, right? I was really mad. And I was in the back picking out whatever it was he told me to do. He did the same thing with MMs on a different trip. And I finally realized that actually what he wanted was to feel powerful and important. So I stopped kind of giving him a little attitude. I started to actually address him the way he wanted to be addressed and give him the courtesy and the attention that he needed. And he was much nicer after that and much happier. The fact of the matter is I was annoyed by his odd ways, his odd behavior, but I learned not to take it personally. So you um as a person who works in service in the service industry, you have to always give a lot of warmth, a lot of caring. You should care about your guests, whether they're nice people or not. That's not the point. But you should always protect a piece of your heart because the guest is not going to have that same feeling towards you. The company, companies change, they change heads, they change, uh they change ownership, they change even their methods. You have to stay true and figure out what is right for you.

Getting Employees Invested in the Company's Bottom Line

SPEAKER_00 27:52

One of your secret powers is teaching tangible, effective tactics for individual employees to increase sales, and you've been mentioning that throughout the conversation. So beyond training, how do you get employees at all levels invested in the company's success and the bottom line?

SPEAKER_01 28:09

Absolutely. If you if you show an employee real numbers, how much money, for example, they made last year in tips, and then you say, okay, that was with an average check of $60. If you sold one extra item to a guest, an additional $20 appetizer, one additional $20 glass of wine, you would have made an additional $30,000 worth of tips. They will do it. So when you can show them on paper exactly how the business works and how they will be more successful, then they definitely are invested. You also need to show them what are the medalli scores, what are the customer satisfaction scores of their department. I usually like to start off first by saying, what do you think it is? And they'll answer and then I'll say, well, it's actually this number here. How could we get it to that higher number? And when you show them every single month what their number is and they see that number grow over time, they're getting invested emotionally in the success of the company. So my favorite things to hear from employees that stay in touch with me is I make more money because of what I learned in our workshop, or I got a promotion after trying something you taught me. This is actually the reason why I do what I do. But honestly, for me, it's a joy to see employees start to take control and take charge of their own success, financial and career success.

Reaching Millennials and Gen Z With the Economic Argument

SPEAKER_00 30:06

You know, this generation of the millennials and the Gen Xers. And sometimes we s feel that they don't even care, but you bring the economic argument that, okay, if you care and if you do what you're supposed to do, you're going to be making so much more money.

SPEAKER_01 30:21

Trevor Burrus, Jr.: That's right. You have to bring it back to them. Right.

What Kate Has Loved Most About 35 Years in Hospitality

SPEAKER_00 30:26

Okay. So looking back at the wealth of experience that you've accumulated in the past 35 years, what have you loved the most about working in hospitality?

SPEAKER_01 30:37

Well, so again, we've been talking about it, but hands down, I have loved meeting the people who work in hospitality, um, hearing their stories, and uh and getting to see them just grow their career over time. So I've worked with a lot of famous celebrities, and the glamour of that is a lot of fun. Um, but actually that's nowhere near as interesting as seeing somebody um come to a new country, start their lives over again, and sacrifice everything that they have so that their families can have a better life. To me, there's no greater joy than that. Um then, of course, I also just really love a well-executed service. So if there's a if there's a beautiful restaurant or an amazing experience, um, that makes my heart sing too.

Advice for Aspiring Hospitality Professionals: Start at the Bottom

SPEAKER_00 31:32

What's your number one lesson, or what advice would you give to aspiring hospitality professionals such as the one graduating from our school?

SPEAKER_01 31:40

Aaron Powell Absolutely. I I, you know, I have so much faith in this business. And I first want to congratulate them on making a great career choice because it's an adventure. But my biggest advice is probably the one thing they don't want to take. And that is I say take your time and learn the business and don't be afraid to take an entry-level job in the beginning. Um, if you want to manage waiters, many of whom are 30 years older than you are, you better know how to be a great waiter. And if you want to be in sales, start working as a catering assistant and learn how a wedding actually grows from the beginning to the end of a contract. And here's where a lot of students will say, Arun, well, then why'd I go to school, right? College is expensive. And I am very well aware of that. I just paid for two sons' colleges. But I will say that your college degree will help you move faster through the ranks. And there will come a time when that will be really important that you have that degree. Um, but in the beginning, you can't make a mistake, just take any job and start learning from there.

Why BU Requires Line-Level Internships First

SPEAKER_00 33:02

Right. And one of the things we do, we require two internships here at our school for undergraduate students, and each internship has to be at least 300 hours. And I always tell students the first internship that you're doing has to be line level. You cannot try to get into a management position. You need to learn how to work with people that you'll be managing very soon.

SPEAKER_01 33:25

Aaron Ross Powell Absolutely. That's so valuable because I've seen a lot of potentially great managers burn out because they never really learned or understood the job that they're managing. And then, of course, they're not going to

Lightning Round: Life on the Road and Traveling to Luxury Properties

SPEAKER_01 33:39

be successful.

SPEAKER_00 33:39

Aaron Powell Right. So let's um uh we have a lightning round of questions, but before that, um I think um I want to mention one thing that I learned about you uh when we met last time, which is that you are in Boston one week a month, and the other three weeks you're traveling each week to a different luxury property, sometimes resorts, sometimes cities like Los Angeles you're going, San Francisco and other beautiful cities of the world. Uh that's incredible.

SPEAKER_01 34:09

You've made it. Thank you. Thanks very much. Um It is the joy of my life to travel and to be in one company in London one week and be in another company in Los Angeles the next week is really how you get that broad spectrum of what's happening in the industry. So I feel very blessed, very lucky.

SPEAKER_00 34:32

Aaron Powell Do you get tired of traveling?

SPEAKER_01 34:35

Aaron Powell I really don't. You don't. No. As soon as I am tired of it, I'll stop. But I uh first of all, I'm staying in beautiful hotels. Yes. So remember, I'm I'm spoiled. But also uh the the fun of it, the the fun of seeing um going to a property and then coming back a few months later and seeing what they did with the information also keeps it going and keeps it interesting.

Favorite Creature Comfort on the Road

SPEAKER_00 35:00

Okay. So what's your favorite creature comfort when you're on the road?

SPEAKER_01 35:03

Aaron Ross Powell Yes. Um I love a really light, airy, crisp duvet. That's that's um just my favorite thing in the world. It's just being jet lagged, getting into bed, and uh that will make me

Best Travel Splurge: Business Class Upgrade Trick

SPEAKER_01 35:18

happy.

SPEAKER_00 35:18

Aaron Ross Powell And what's the best splurge when you're traveling?

SPEAKER_01 35:22

Um I'll say business class. Uh business class in the airplane, one of my favorite tricks is to buy an economy ticket. And then when you go to the airport, always be well dressed, go to the first class section and say uh how much would it be for a business class upgrade? And it's usually um 50 to 80 percent off of the full price. Um also a great massage is also something I like to do.

SPEAKER_00 35:51

I would have imagined that with so much of flying, you would have had statuses and a lot of miles to upgrade for I have some great points.

SPEAKER_01 35:59

I save them for when I'm traveling privately.

Strangest Guest Request Ever Fulfilled

SPEAKER_00 36:03

What is the strangest request you've ever gotten in your years of working in hospitality?

SPEAKER_01 36:08

Aaron Ross Powell Hmm. Um besides having to pick out certain nuts, I will say uh there's plenty of requests that I can't tell you on the air, but I will say we once had a prima ballerina stay in a very large presidential suite, and she requested pillows to be placed uh covering the entire floor. And it was about a 2,000 square foot space. So we had to every day fluff the pillows and put them down and back out of the room so we wouldn't have our own footprints.

SPEAKER_00 36:39

Wow. Why did she want that? Was she dancing on the pillows?

SPEAKER_01 36:45

I didn't ask.

Most Inhospitable Word or Expression

SPEAKER_00 36:47

Okay. What is the most inhospitable word or expression?

SPEAKER_01 36:53

Oh, that's easy. No. Or uh no, sorry, right? That flat, no, sorry, we don't do that. Um, a robot bringing a toothbrush up at two in the morning. I think unfortunately, Arun, what's more likely to happen is you call down for a toothbrush and they say, no, we don't have that, sorry. And they don't even bother to bring it up. And um so so that just drives me crazy. Um, it's not that we never say no to a guest. As long as it's legal, moral, impossible, we find an alternative.

SPEAKER_00 37:26

Aaron Ross Powell I hope you don't encounter that too much since luxury properties you're staying in.

SPEAKER_01 37:31

Aaron Ross Powell You would be surprised. Um you'd be surprised at uh you know when there's no staffing, right? For example.

Most Hospitable Word or Expression: The Power of "Thank You For..."

SPEAKER_00 37:40

Most hospitable word or expression.

SPEAKER_01 37:43

Also an easy one. Um and it's also a great trick when wanting to diffuse an angry guest. The best phrase you can use is thank you. And for. So, for example, if a guest is angry with you, I teach uh in my workshops to say, thank you for letting me know. Thank you so much for the information. I really appreciate you telling me that. Here's what I'm going to do about it. Thank you for choosing us. Thank you for staying with us. Thank you for bringing your children here. Anytime you say thank you, it triggers a happier emotion and it slows the guests down. Um, but when you say thank you for letting me know, it's so much better than I wasn't aware that was a problem. And it's how you get somebody on your side.

unknown 38:29

Right.

SPEAKER_00 38:30

And and I think one of the phrases you mentioned, um, and here is what I'm going to do about it. That's my pet. I mean, that makes me very happy. If there's a problem, I point it out, and someone says, okay, and this is what I'm going to do about it. Otherwise, many times they just say, Okay, thanks for letting me know, and then promptly forget about it the moment you turn your own. It's true. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:51

Absolutely. You have to follow up.

Closing Remarks & Credits

SPEAKER_00 38:53

Kate, thank you for joining us and giving us all of these insights about uh travel. I think after listening to the podcast, there might be many people who might want to work with you and be your assistants while you're traveling. Um, so thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 39:09

Thank you very much. Thanks for the opportunity and thanks for all the work you do.

SPEAKER_00 39:14

And thank you everyone for joining us today. Special thanks to the team who produces this podcast, Bara Littman, Andy Halleck, and the entire team at Boston University School of Hospitality Administration. To keep up with Distinguished Podcasts, be sure to subscribe wherever you listen to your favorite podcast. You can also learn more about our undergraduate and graduate programs at Boston University School of Hospitality Administration by visiting bu.edu slash hospitality.