Jeff Gates, COO of Columbus Hospitality Group, on Elevating the Art of Service in the Tech Age

What does it take to lead in a changing industry? In this episode of Distinguished, Dean Arun Upneja speaks with Jeff Gates, Chief Operating Officer of the Columbus Hospitality Group (CHG), about the lessons that his many years in restaurants have taught him about leadership, resilience, and the power of people. From his first job at the dish table to overseeing some of Boston’s most celebrated restaurants, Jeff shares how humility, empathy, and consistency have shaped his philosophy: hospitality is a mirror of what you give, reflecting back at you.

Listen to this podcast for an exploration of how leaders can balance technology and human touch, foster purpose-driven teams, and find meaning in everyday service. As the industry adapts to new expectations and tools such as AI, Jeff reminds us that hospitality’s greatest strength has always been, and will always be, its humanity.

🎧 Topics Include:

• Why every leader should start “from the bottom up”
• How AI and innovation can support, not replace, hospitality
• Lessons in mentorship and creating a culture of care
• The story behind CHG's newest concept, Gary’s Pizza
• And what makes great hospitality timeless

The “Distinguished” podcast is produced by Boston University School of Hospitality Administration. 

Host: Arun Upneja, Dean
Producer: Mara Littman, Executive Director of Strategic Operations and Corporate Relations
Research and Content Creation: Lu Lan
Editing: Isabella Laikin
Sound Engineer: Andrew Hallock

Music: “Airport Lounge" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0

Transcript

Introduction & Jeff's Journey

SPEAKER_01 0:04

A few weeks ago, I sat in a tiny 14-seat restaurant tucked into a quiet corner of a busy city. There was no sign outside. The menu changed daily, and yet every seat was full. Guests lingered, servers remembered names. A grandmother at the next table was celebrating her 80th birthday. A startup team toasted a product launch. The food was beautiful, but the feeling was unforgettable. That's the power of restaurants. Hello and welcome to the Distinguished Podcast. I'm Arunupneja, Dean of Boston University School of Hospitality Administration. In this series, we explore the evolving world of restaurants, where hospitality meets innovation and the guest experience is constantly being reimagined. Restaurants are big business, employing over 12 million people in the US alone, and generating nearly a trillion dollars in annual sales. But they are also personal, emotional, cultural. They are where we go to mark milestones, reconnect, or just feel like ourselves. And today they are facing enormous pressures, rising costs, staffing shortages, shifting guest expectations, technology that promises efficiency but risks removing the human touch. At BU, we call this crossroads experience innovation, the art and science of designing hospitality that's both operationally smart and emotionally resonant. Not just functional, but transformational. That's the thread running through every conversation in this series. From Michelin starred chefs and tech-savvy entrepreneurs to the people reinventing back-of-the-house systems and front-of-house dynamics. We are talking to the leaders, reshaping what restaurants can be. So whether you are a student preparing for your career, a seasoned operator seeking new ideas, or someone who simply loves to dine, you'll find inspiration, insight, and maybe a few surprises. Because when restaurants flourish, they don't just serve meals, they shape culture, strengthen communities, and nourish our shared human experience. This is the Distinguished Podcast. I'm glad you're here. I'm Arun Pneya, Dean of Boston University School of Hospitality Administration, and this is Distinguished. Today's guest is a true force in the world of restaurants, not just for what he's built, but for how he leads with clarity, humility, and a deep reverence for people. Jeff Gates has spent 40 years in hospitality, rising from dishwasher and busboy to journal manager, founding partner, and now chief operating officer of Columbus Hospitality Group, home to some of Boston's most iconic restaurants. Along the way, he helped launch the legendary Mistral, co-founded Equitaine and the SOA Dining Group, and brought fresh energy to every corner of the Boston's dining scene. But titles only tell part of the story. What sets Jeff apart is how he thinks about culture, about service, and about what restaurants really mean. He brings an engineer's precision, an entrepreneur's courage, and a mentor's heart. He's as comfortable talking about profit margins as he is about staff morale. And in every conversation, he offers insight that's equal parts practical and profound. Jeff has chaired the Massachusetts Restaurant Association, served on national boards, launched a reservation platform before most of us knew we needed one, and still finds time to give back to local communities. He has seen this industry evolve through booms, crashes, pandemics, and pivots. And through it all, he has stayed grounded in the belief that hospitality is about more than service. It's about human connection. Jeff Gates is a builder, a guide, and a pillar of Boston's restaurant world. And I am honored to welcome him to Distinguished. Jeff, welcome.

SPEAKER_00 4:41

Thank you, Arun. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it. Very kind. It's been a really enjoyable 45 years in the industry, and uh, you know, I enjoyed every every run of the ladder. It's been a lot of fun to climb. So

Working Every Position — From Dishwasher to COO

SPEAKER_00 4:56

thank you.

SPEAKER_01 4:56

And and and picking up on that, since you've worked every position on the way, how important is it for restaurant leaders to work their way up?

SPEAKER_00 5:06

Um I think it's the most probably the most important position in the kitchen is is probably at the dish table. Um if you really want to know how your business is doing, if a lot of dishes are coming in, you're obviously busy. Um if a lot of the dishes are clean or all clean, uh you're probably producing a really great product. Um if there's a lot of different glasses coming in, whether it's burgundy wine glasses or water glasses or cocktail glasses or martini glasses, um, you can see how consumption is. So, you know, that volume in the dish room can really tell you a lot about the health of your restaurant. So that gives you an idea of what some people would think is the bottom rung. Um, I look at it as being a really instrumental part in understanding the industry very well. And I did start in the kitchen first and work my way out. I was a valet. Um that was really interesting because being a valet taught me how to um integrate with the neighbors, because many times neighbors want to park their car in the valet zone. So do you just throw them out? Um that person's probably a customer in a few days. So not exactly. The way you the way you handle everybody really matters. Every every conversation you have should really be driven by um really enjoying having conversation, right?

SPEAKER_01 6:17

So so since you've worked every position and you know that comes through with all the lessons you've learned and how you lead, but how important is it for leaders in our industry to have risen from the ranks?

SPEAKER_00 6:32

Um I mean, it's you're you're gonna fail. You're not going to be as successful if you don't know what the job looks like when it's done right. So I would say that the the important reason to have experience and to uh to go through and and see these positions either demonstrated or to do them yourself is because you really begin to know what looks right and uh what's done right. And then you can be a better, um, you can be a better manager, and more importantly, you'd be a better mentor. Because not everybody starts out with experience. So, you know, part of making people, part of making a successful business is hiring people and mentoring them. And honestly, I think when they feel successful at their job, the the whole business is going to be successful. So a leader that knows what all these roles are, knows what they look like when they're being done well, and knows how to do a lot of them, I think is is just priceless.

Where Jeff Spends His Time as COO

SPEAKER_01 7:27

So where do you think where do you spend where do you find yourself spending most time? On people, on putting out fires, or creating strategy for the group?

SPEAKER_00 7:36

Well, I I never have, I never find as much time as I want to be in the face of customers, right? To be directly with customers, with our guests. Um that's always a challenge. And probably the number one reason is because of fires, right? Um there's always some problem. Uh obviously today it's gonna be over 90 degrees, tomorrow almost 100. Um, I'm expecting refrigeration and air conditioning problems over the next 48 hours, and we'll be dealing with that. Um, that always happens. Um, but uh there's staff, you know, integrating with the staff, speaking with staff, and then there's the financial side. So I try to spend about half my day uh looking at all the financial indicators and the um the maintain the maintenance indicators of the company, and then getting involved with the HR and then talking to our director team and getting help from them because I don't I don't help the director team, they they they help me.

SPEAKER_01 8:34

So of all these different jobs that you have, which one gets you most excited about?

SPEAKER_00 8:40

Oh uh face to face with guests. Okay. Absolutely, 100%. Still right now we we have opened a quick serve pizza shop um over in the south end, and I'm over there helping open, I work the counter, and I absolutely love it. I mean, if if uh if I could do that every day, I probably would do that for you know, half my day, I would do that because I just there's so much guest interaction, and I love I love making people happy. I mean, I I feel like hospitality is like a mirror on yourself. Um when you look in that mirror and you're happy, that's what you get back. And I just love it. It's and it makes even when I'm having a challenging day myself, either personally or professionally, uh, guests can bring me out of that. Um, because I look at you know, making them happy, and I feel great, and uh, and I had a success, and and that's and that's what we all want at work, right? Is success.

Technology & Running Restaurants Without a Scoreboard

SPEAKER_01 9:33

Now that's the heart of a true professional, hospitality professional. Okay, I want to pivot to tech. Um, and this is you know, where um reservation platforms, point of sale systems, event management tools. We use a whole lot of these tools in our industry. So, what tools are working and where do they fall short?

SPEAKER_00 9:54

Um, I think that a lot of tools are working. And I think what the problem for a lot of people in the industry is is they're not cheap. Um, you know, they can be a hundred to several hundred dollars a month. And so it can be a little scary because next thing you know, you're spending, you know, between a thousand, two thousand, even three thousand dollars a month on these tools. But the reality is that, you know, picture, I always say this, picture a sports game like picture basketball with no scoreboard. Okay, you're you're basically an outdoor pickup game. You know, you can you can keep score, basic score, but you don't know where the fouls are. You don't know quite where things are going, and it's the crowd that gets you going, right? The crowd makes you feel good. Well, the restaurant industry for many operators is like that. It's like running a business without a scoreboard. So the next question is how quickly can you get the score? Can you get it every month? Can you get it every week? Can you get it every day? Um so all these tech pieces give us information every day, which I think is is fantastic. And it's uh it's definitely the key to running a profitable restaurant now today.

SPEAKER_01 11:01

Okay, I I really like that analogy because, you know, um in basketball, and especially since, you know, there was a big game last night, um you know, you need to keep tabs on each uh player to see how many fouls they have done. At some point they get ejected out. So over the years, since you've been in this for such a long time, um, you've seen these products be introduced, and so they've changed the way we operate restaurants. And are we relying on them too much and not going by instinct, or is that a good thing?

SPEAKER_00 11:32

Um, I mean, there's just so there's so much volume. Boy, that's a tough one. Um, because the reality is that you're asking what came first, the chicken or the egg, really. There is just so much volume out there in people's lives, information volume. And that's the good news. People have access to a lot of things they didn't have, right? And I think that's important in a democracy. It's important in a business, right? But um the challenge also is is that you know we have uh much tighter margins, and the velocity of business and the change in the way we do things, the change in pricing, the change in volume, all of that is so quick, we need to be able to um we need to be able to uh uh be more uh reflexive, more more agile, excuse me. And so I think these products do give us that agility um that we didn't have before. So, you know, I feel we would be lost without them. Um and I think they've been an important, an important piece. Probably the most important development since the frying pan, I think, is a lot of these apps.

Balancing Tech with Real-Time Decision Making

SPEAKER_01 12:36

So if if uh managers rely too much on these analytical tools and the information that is coming in, how do you then train them to balance with real-time decision making they have to do since we are an industry that is very fast-paced?

SPEAKER_00 12:52

So we divide at Columbus Hospitality Group, I think we've done a good job of dividing our day up into two pieces. So we have uh before the guests arrive, we have what we call really the free throw time, right? Getting back to basketball again. Um it's really you on the line and your ability, and you know, and sinking the balls, right? And free throws are your uh standard operating procedures every day, um, you know, whether it's doing inventory or doing uh looking at reservations or even answering the phone, all those kinds of SOP things, unlocking the door, checking the AC if the ice machine's working, all those SOPs that all occurs before the guests come in. And we don't have to worry about breaking eye contact from people when we're doing these things, and we don't have to worry about much about reflection, right? You know, how do I look to this guest? How am I handling? Am I really giving them what they want? Or am I just giving them what I want to give them, right? That's all before 530. But once the door opens at 530, all the apps get put away except for open table. Open table, it's an integral part of the of the restaurant, right? Uh the uh reservations. But everything else gets put away, and we're old school. You know, we're we're eyes up front, we're eyes up, um, we're smiles first, uh, we listen, we listen to people because people are unique. Not only are their challenges unique, but even the solution to the same challenge for one guest might be different for another guest. Because we always have to make sure the guest understands we are listening to them. They're unique and they're important.

AI in Restaurant Operations

SPEAKER_01 14:21

So um now this is the next evolution where AI is coming in big way, the large language models and artificial intelligence. Um, are you excited about this new concepts coming in and helping? Do you see any red flags? Have you already used some of those AI models?

SPEAKER_00 14:39

Yeah, I think um so we have used AI. So when we put together an SOP for, say, cleaning the bar, you know, hey, how what's our SOP, what's our standard operating procedure for getting the bar clean before the staff starts the day? You can ask AI that, and AI comes up with 15 steps to cleaning a bar. It literally does. Does that mean that's it? No, but it's an excellent conversation starter because you look at it and you're like, oh my God, I forgot about that. Or that's not us. That's not in our bar, we don't have that piece of equipment. But it does, you know, 80% of the work and really gets your juices going. So I think in that way, AI is great. I haven't, I'm not seeing the trouble yet. I'm not. I'm I'm an optimist too, though. Um, I'm thinking of things like our guest is going to be able to someday go online and say, I'm looking for a fantastic dinner for two. Um, I want a romantic night with my SO. We both haven't had the day off in two days in a week or whatever. Um, where should we go? I'm looking for AI to powerfully answer that based on a lot of different things. I think it's I think in that way, AI's ability to be a personal assistant to give us a better life, I think is is something I look forward to. Um and I just I don't know yet how it would negatively impact the industry. I'm not, I'm just not sure

Gary's Pizza & Elevating Quick-Serve

SPEAKER_00 15:58

about it.

SPEAKER_01 15:58

I want to go to this, um, and and you're wearing that t-shirt and you've opened this new restaurant, Gary's Pizza. So what opportunity did you see in that space?

SPEAKER_00 16:08

Uh quick serve, QSR we'll call it, right? Quick serve restaurant. There's obviously the United States, the world is flooded with QSR. And so much of the product, there's we won't talk about the product that's not good. It's just, I'm not really that guy. Um, there's a lot of great product out there, and it's a function of time, right? I'm hungry, I want something, I want it quick, and that's what QSR is. And some people do it very well. They their sales grow and their earnings grow every year, so it must be good, right? Um, but you know, there's a level of service that's missing from QSR, and a level of quality that is a challenge to bring in QSR, right? Because when you're trying to be profitable, um, quality can bury you, right? And when you're trying to be profitable, labor can bury you. And hospitality is a function of labor. The more you push wages down, the tougher it is you're gonna find people that are going to be able to elevate your hospitality. So we have a unique, you know, we see a unique problem in QuickServe, and we're really interested in bringing what we do to it. So we're trying to do QuickServe with elevated product, with an elevated ingredients, right? And we're also trying to do um, we're also trying to elevate the hospitality. We try to spend a little more FaceTime with our guests. We try to figure out, I know they're coming in for pizza, but we're trying to really get them to understand, like for instance, our slices, we don't reheat our slices. Our slices are cooked 80% in back, and then we bring them out, and we cook the next, the last three minutes, we cook live with the guests. So I think that's important. That's a differentiator for us. Um, and then all of our ingredients, um, fresh oregano, for instance, we break it right off the stem right there. We're picking uh basil, pulling basil right off the stem right on the counter. Um, these are the kinds of things that we don't know how to do it any differently. So it's very exciting to bring that to people, and so far they're noticing.

SPEAKER_01 18:02

So um Columbus Hospitality Group stands for something with all the restaurants that you have. So this is now very, very different. And so, how do you protect the core values of the brand and the core image that you have when you introduce something so different?

SPEAKER_00 18:19

I it's funny. It's funny. Uh you're right, it is different. But how different can it be if, as a guest, when you walk in the door, everybody that you walk into, all of us, are excited you're there and we love what we're doing, right? And then you're hungry, you know. So I get it, you know, we're lower check. The check average is like, I don't know, it Gary's, it's $25, you know, it's pretty inexpensive, $22 or something, you know, all in for the average all day. Um but I feel like I just don't feel that far away from our core mission, um, because Columbus Hospitality Group's core mission is to serve things perfectly, happily. That's what we do. And I see the same thing at Gary's, so I feel great there.

SPEAKER_01 19:07

Right. And and uh some time ago you did mention that it's not something that we want to do, it is something what the guests want. Now they may not always want to go to a mistral or or another restaurant like that. They it's there are times when they just want to go have a pizza, and so why not provide it to them?

SPEAKER_00 19:25

Yeah, I'm right. I you know, the funny thing about it is I think there's long-term success. I think short-term success is serving something fantastic. You know, serving what you want to people is fantastic. I think that's short-term success. But long-term success is serving fantastic things to people that they want. And I feel that that, you know, constantly listening to the guest, I think the best brands, they call that evolving, right? A brand is evolving. That's not really generally what's happening. Um, I mean, I know that uh, you know, you look at Steve Jobs, came up with a smaller, you know, the iPod, for instance. You know, he came up with that because people wanted to listen to more music in a smaller spot and be able to fit in their pants pocket. That's really what he responded to. He didn't uh, you know, without a without a market, I don't think you really have a product, right? So I think the restaurant business is the same thing. You know, we we just we just serve, I think, really well what people are actually looking for. And as their minds change, we sense that and we slowly are changing with them.

Pricing, Inflation & Consumer Resistance

SPEAKER_01 20:32

So most diners don't realize how much thought goes into pricing and menu design. So how do you approach menu strategy, especially during these inflationary times?

SPEAKER_00 20:44

I don't think restaurant prices have ever kept up with inflation, but I think a key reason is because operators are very, very savvy. Um they're very flexible, um, they have a lot of different tools in their box to mitigate their, to mitigate their expenses to change. Um they have a lot of efficiencies that they always find somehow. Um and it's and I think what drives them in the end, what drives a really great operator isn't profit. What drives a really great operator is that feeling of succeeding with your guest. And I think that's different than a lot of other products, right? We make our product in the back and sell it out of the front. If we were in the sneaker business, we'd make them where we make them. Somebody else would be selling them. We have a pretty big disconnect between our guests, between our customer, right? Um, but in the hospitality industry, there's not a big, there's not a lot of distance between manufacturing and and the and the throughput to the guest. So we can be very nimble and we can see, ooh, you know, the guest did not like that. Let's change that item. That got too expensive. Let's change that to a different item, or let's let's look for a different way to make this product. Um, you know, and I think it's what makes the restaurant industry so. Exciting. I mean, I'm an engineer by training. I went to college for engineering. And people ask, you know, why the hospitality industry? I have a mechanical engineering background. I love the variables. I love it. It's so exciting. And I love it because the big variable, the guest, we talk to them every day. And they give us the feedback we need. And a lot of big manufacturers, they don't have that feedback. They take a month, two months, they can do a study group, finally figure it out. By the time they figure out the answer, there's a new question that they got to try to figure out. So it's very exciting.

SPEAKER_01 22:31

And here you're getting instant feedback every single day with all the customers that are coming in. The way you're telling it, the pricing actually in restaurants is very good. In 30 years, if everything is quadrupled, then um, but restaurant prices have only doubled. You know, let's just go with that example. Um but in the last three or four years, since you've said there is a there's been a rapid rise, so have you noticed any resistance to the price rise in restaurants from consumers? And how do you manage that?

SPEAKER_00 23:03

You know, I I feel the consumer, we have a very powerful consumer in the United States. And the reason why they're so powerful is because they had choice. I think a lot of countries, um, what they really lack isn't consumers, but they lack choice, they lacked, and they lack, uh, and they lack sometimes in some ways, uh, maybe they lack quality, right? They lack the quality that we have here, and which is ironic because quite a bit of the quality we have in the United States has been brought from another country. So there's there's nothing loaded in that. I'm just saying that we're a very, very lucky country. We're a very lucky consumer. And um I feel that that strength, that power helps control pricing. Um, if we miss it, we're going to slow down the dining room. We're going to have slower guests, you know, we're gonna have a lower guest count. And that's a terrible time, that's a terrible way to run your business. Well, we'll keep raising our prices until the guests start exiting the building. Um but what that means is that we're very careful about what we're charging. Very careful, because what we say is listen, if we don't charge this, we're going to be closed. So we're not going to be able to serve a meal to anybody. We're not going to be able to practice our craft for anyone. And I think that's really what drives a successful restaurant is not, you know, let's make more money tomorrow. It's how can we get the best product to our guest and remain open? Um, again, like I said, I don't know many operators. I started as a dishwasher. Um, Steve De Filippo uh started as uh making salads down in uh Faniu Hall uh from Davio's. I know Jamie started. Um Jamie started a cooking school and then uh he worked in the kitchen as a prep guy. Um everybody I know started in the bottom. And what that means to me is they didn't do this for the money. They did this because it's what they love, they got they love the energy. And I think it helps because in the end, when a guest goes into a great restaurant, they look at, they open the menu and they say, hey, do you know what? This is expensive. Let's face it, chicken I can get for you know six, seven bucks a pound at the grocery store, and I'm paying $30 for roast chicken, and it's not a pound. You know, nobody says, hey, I can get this for $6. They understand the value, they understand what they're getting. And when you do have a guest that's upset about price, it's usually because there's a few things are disconnected, not just price. Maybe the hospitality wasn't the level they expected. Maybe the physical plant isn't maintained in the way they expected, and it culminates to the by the time they get the check and they're saying, hey, this place, the pricing is out of whack. They're overcharging for this. Um, that's what I feel. Um, I've been doing this for a long time. Uh occasionally people will comment that things are overpriced. It happens. I mean, I've been I mean, I've served millions of people. Um, but the majority of people, I never hear anything about price at all. Never.

Talent, Retention & the COVID Reset

SPEAKER_01 25:55

Fantastic. Great answer. And for everyone listening, he mentioned a few legends in the Boston hospital, in the restaurant industry, and I hope to get all of them on my podcast soon. Okay, I want to pivot to uh people, talent, recruitment. Um, recruiting and retaining talent is still a major hurdle. You mentioned that before with uh with the cost of labor. So, what's what are you seeing in the market and what's working for you?

SPEAKER_00 26:25

I think something COVID did for our industry, although it was a lot of upheaval, I think it gave us all a reset because we all had those three weeks where we're home, right? And then we had months where our businesses were closed, and it gave us time to be with our families, to find things in our relationship that we had missed. And when the lights turned back on again, we were different people. And these different people were leaders, and how these different people saw their businesses and saw the people that worked for them changed. And it wasn't, hey, I don't want to be uh, you know, I don't want to be cruel to my team anymore, I don't want to overwork them or whatever the term might be. It wasn't that at all. It's hey, do you know what? I found this and my team needs this, and I'm gonna make sure they have it. Many restaurants closed, we were talking about this earlier, many restaurants closed during COVID. When they reopened, they reopened with limited hours as they slowly brought business back, right? Like the beginning of a symphony, the music started very slow, and they found that I don't need, we don't need all of those hours. And they've been able to hold on to better people because people realized, hey, I love this, this is great, and I still get to be with my family, I still get to be with my SO, right? I still get to be the person I wanted to be while I work professionally. Um, yeah, just a respect for who people are when they aren't working for us, I think, is has been very powerful and has really attracted people into our business, like never before.

SPEAKER_01 27:55

Yeah, this this kind of thinking is transformational. And I am very happy to hear you you say that. When I started in the business, it was work 12 hours, 14 hours a day, six to seven days a week. And I think the dominant theme in the industry was I did it, I put on those hours, now you're coming in, you have to put in those hours, you have to pay your dues as well. But this is very, very refreshing for young people to hear that leaders are not thinking that way, even though they went through those crazy hours, but now they're not asking that for the new generation to who will start working for them.

SPEAKER_00 28:33

Aaron Powell Yeah, I mean, good people have good friends, good people have good family. And when they're coming home from work and they're not happy, people that care about them say that to them. Might not say it directly, but drip, drip, drip, you need a change. And they end up leaving where they are and they do something else. And I think that's been tough on the industry. And I think that we owe it to, we owe it to our team uh to worry as much about them, the inner guests, they call that, right? The inner guests, to worry as much about our team as we do about our guests. It's difficult. It's always a work in progress, always, because I think the guests, I think the guests always end up coming in and taking over the party. Um, it just happens. It's just there's 150 of them on a Saturday night, and there's only, you know, 20 of us. So of course it's gonna happen. But the reality is, is that um really we need to enjoy, we need to enjoy our staff, and our staff need to enjoy work, and then they go home and their family sees that and they buy into it, and they support it, and they become an important, integral part of it. And I think that's the glue to keeping people working with you. Is that it's not just how much you pay them and how much accolades they get or their title. It's is did their whole world support what they're doing? And do they feel good? Do they feel successful? Do they feel smart? Do they feel challenged? All those things, right? Um, and I think that at CHG, every day, we worry about that every day. You know, how are we finding the right people? Um, are they how are they doing? Are they happy? Um, you know, when you see somebody at at work, when I go in, I see somebody who's unhappy, um, the the real question to ask them, and in private, to grab them for a moment and say, hey, are you okay? You know, are you okay? It's a really great thing to ask somebody. And they can either answer right off the bat or they can say, yeah, why? And you could say to them, you could say, hey, I don't know, you just seemed, you seem like you weren't yourself. Because I think we all need to know that we're seen as good people, right? And we're all, you know, we all have an elastic relationship with what's great in us and our families, but sometimes life pulls us away from that. And it's nice to have somebody come and say, Are you okay? And you say, Yeah, I am, why? Oh, you just seemed off. Because sometimes that's all you needed. You're like, wow, geez, I didn't know I was wearing that on my, I'm gonna put that away, you know, that's no one's business, right? But other times you're like, you can go back to that person and say, you know what, I'm not okay. I do need some help. I have somebody sick at home. Um, I have something, I have a challenge, I have a financial challenge. I mean, everybody, we've all had bad days and bad moments. The thing about hospitality is to remember that while you're in your good moment running your restaurant, running your dining room, being in the dining room, that person that you're facing may be in the worst moment that you had three weeks ago. And I think that's important because people are good people, right? People are good people. I know in this day and age, right now, today, it's difficult to think that because there's some there's some challenging people out there to that model. But what I look at is people are good people, but some of them are just having a bad day. And I said earlier, that's why they're here, right? So I don't know. That's for me, that's that's it to holding good people. You know, and another thing we do with CHG is we we allow managers to be in control of their future. So when we bring them in, if they're a dining room manager or an assistant to the general manager or general manager, they have we have levels level one, level two, level three within the the dining room manager, level one, level two, level three within the um the uh assistant, the general manager, and they're certified within those. They have, they know what they need to do to get to the next level. And with the next level comes a raise in compensation. It comes closer to the next big job title change. They don't have to leave, you don't have to leave a CHG restaurant. If you're a dining room manager, you don't have to leave one of our restaurants to get a raise. You don't have to leave one of our restaurants to become an AGM. An AGM doesn't have to leave one of our restaurants to become a GM because I think that happens too much. Great people leave, how come? Well, they left because they're ready for the next level, and that person above them isn't leaving. You know, there's the ceiling and they're not leaving. That happens everywhere. That's terrible, though. Every time we we train somebody and get them all this experience and put all this time and effort and we we enjoy them and they're our friends, they are compelled to leave to get to the next spot. So what we've tried to do is we try to say, hey, you don't have to go. We're gonna we're gonna keep compensating and changing your compensation as you certify in experience, as you change your experience level, a year, six months, three months. I have no problem with it. We have black and white paths to each of these levels, and they can attain, they can obtain them. What do we get? I'll tell you what we get. We get, our guests get somebody who really cares about their career, really has a skill level that's that's growing every day. How could that be bad for our restaurant? And I'll tell you what our competitors get. They don't get our good people. That's what our competitors

The Next Generation of Hospitality Leaders

SPEAKER_00 33:47

get.

SPEAKER_01 33:47

Incredible. Um so a lot of people say that there is a management gap in the young people that are coming into leadership positions now. Um, first of all, do you think that is the case? And if it is, then what do you think is missing from their education to be good leaders in the industry?

SPEAKER_00 34:08

I think that young people are going to be amazing. I think all the cohorts that are younger than us are going to be incredible. There has got to be some incredible value that we're going to get as a society out of all these young people that have all this access to information. I know we always look at the tough part of it. You know, they're on video games and all these things, but I don't know. That stuff's always, one way or another, been around in our lives when we were kids too, right? I'm sure the jukebox was a bad thing, right? You know, I I think that the reality is that if your kid's bored, and boredom can be good, by the way, it can be good. Um uh, but I think that this opportunity that we're gonna have from this generation coming up is gonna answer a lot of the challenges that that we've created, our generation has created, and they'll create their own, just like we created our own, right? That's kind of what happens, right? When the older the older folks kind of make a mess of things a little bit, some good things in a mess of things. I think the young people come and and they fix it up. I mean, think about the people that are in charge right now, the people who have been charge the last two weeks, the United States. They grew up in the late 60s, early 70s, flower, power, love, peace, right, no war. Um, you know, some of the richest people in the world grew up in that era. And somehow they are who they are now, uh, bad or good. So um I think there's a great opportunity. I'm an optimist. Um, I'm excited about the young people in our industry.

Michelin Guide Coming to Boston

SPEAKER_01 35:39

Fantastic. I love that. And I I fully echo your your um your uh stand on this issue. I think uh I'm looking forward to some of them taking over and helping, you know, remove all the messes that our generation has created in this world. Um I also believe in their inherent goodness of this next generation, I think. Um so enough of that. Maybe that's another podcast. Um let me pivot to something uh more fun and interesting. It's the Michelin guide. We finally, Boston finally got the Michelin guide. So the question is, will that have an impact on the city from an investment, from a guest standpoint, from a tourism perspective? Um, how good do you think it is?

SPEAKER_00 36:23

I think it's great. I mean, so they talk about um when somebody races on foot running, they get the best times from people when they run against somebody else. Right? We bring out the best in each other. So when Michelin comes to Boston, what I see happening is we all elevate our game. And we elevate our game either directly, um, we recognize its importance, we immediately all go online and figure out, you know, what's the criteria? What's the yardstick? How do we measure? You know, do we measure up? And I think we all would like to say, hey, do you know what we've already been doing a lot of these things? But I think it's important to remember why we're doing it. I think it's important to have a score, right? Like that score is important. And I think when a competitor elevates their game, the next person down line or beside them elevates their game and so on. So it gets right back to that. You're running, you're running against yourself, you get one time, suddenly you put another couple runners out there, and you're running much faster because they are. Um so I think in the end it's gonna be great. I think it's gonna be great for the most important person out there, and that's the consumer. I think the guest in Boston is going to have a better dining experience in Boston over the next 10 years, 20, 30 years, because Michelin showed up. And is it gonna how what's the incremental percentage of how much better it's gonna be? I don't know. But what we're always about is can we give you a better experience tomorrow than we did today? And if we do, we win.

SPEAKER_01 37:56

I think that is an absolute positive way of looking at these scorecards that are coming our way. So thank you for that. Okay, so um I want to um, you know, the the podcast is listened to by a lot of students and young professionals everywhere. Um, and they look to leaders like you for guidance. And and I hope everyone has been listening because you are an incorrigible optimist, you are so positive and have the right attitude on everything. What is that one piece of advice you wish someone had given you when you were starting out in your career?

Rapid Fire & Closing

SPEAKER_00 38:34

Oh boy. Uh it's got nothing to do with hospitality. If you buy real estate, hold on to it. I think that would have been nice. But I mean, when it comes to hospitality, I got it, you know what's funny, Stevie Filippo. I spent quite a bit of time with him years ago. We were very young. Steve had an infectious love of people. And I I loved being with him, I love working with him, and uh, I learned everything from him about really going into work every day and loving what I do and loving the people I work with. And it started there. The guests didn't even show up yet, and I was already happy. Um, so I don't think that I think that uh I haven't not had any advice. I've had so many mentors, whether it was, you know, obviously Steve or Jamie, um, my partners at the Aquitaine group. Um I had a lot of I had really a great 20 years with those guys, Seth and Matt. Um, you know, my wife now. I I don't think that I've been at a loss. I said it earlier. I have, I'm a guy with a lot of mentors, you know. Everything that went wrong in my life, I did to myself. Who gets to say that, you know? But um, you know, you really gotta love what you do every day to do this. You gotta be a cab driver that loves traffic. You know, you really, you really gotta be that guy. You've been in the back of that cab, right? The guy hates traffic. You're like, dude, get another job. Oh my God, I'm just I'm just going to Logan. You know, I think that you really gotta like it. You gotta like people and you gotta like solving their problems, you know. And I think honestly, when you worry about solving other people's problems, guess what? You forget about your own, you know.

SPEAKER_01 40:14

Okay, so um let's close with a few rapid-fire questions. Short answers, you're a thinker, but no overthinking here. Yeah. If you could share a meal with anyone, living or not, who would it be?

SPEAKER_00 40:26

Oh God, I got I got both of them. I got living is Keith McNally.

SPEAKER_01 40:31

Most overplayed food item right now.

SPEAKER_00 40:34

Overplayed?

SPEAKER_01 40:35

Yeah, right now.

SPEAKER_00 40:36

Uh food or I mean beverages, alcohol.

SPEAKER_01 40:40

Alcohol, okay. What dish or ingredient is about to be the next big thing?

SPEAKER_00 40:46

Dish or ingredient about to be the next big thing. Um more fruits and vegetables, I think.

SPEAKER_01 40:52

Are you thinking that that that will be a big thing that people will start going? Okay.

SPEAKER_00 40:57

Yeah, uh I think protein is getting to protein it's starting to it's starting to show its its age. It's tough on the environment. Protein's tough on the environment to produce. Um it's getting very expensive. Um and in larger quantities, it can be difficult in people's health. Right. So I I can see their, I can see as a gradual change to probably more fruits and vegetables.

SPEAKER_01 41:22

Your dream meal, where in the world would it occur?

SPEAKER_00 41:26

Uh my dream meal is definitely at home with my wife. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 41:30

Well said. I hope she's listening. Um, one word to describe what great hospitality feels like.

SPEAKER_00 41:37

Uh a guest smiling at you. Really incredible feeling to be part of that. To be part of a guest smiling and to help them find a smile. It's an incredible, it's really incredible.

SPEAKER_01 41:49

It is always a delight to have a conversation with you, Jeff. And today was no exception, and I look forward to many more in the future. And thank you so much for coming today and good luck with the new concept that you have.

SPEAKER_00 42:02

Thank you, Arun. Thank you, and thank you to your team for making this happen today. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 42:06

Thank you. If you would like to join the conversation or share your thoughts, email me at shawdean at bu.edu. That is s-h-a-d-e-a-n at bu.edu. This episode was produced by Mara Littman, marketing by Rachel Hamlin, and video plus production by Jason Jose of Cocoon Media. And thank you to the entire team at Boston University School of Hospitality Administration. To keep up with the distinguished podcast, be sure to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You can also explore more about experience innovation in our programs by visiting pu.edu slash hospitality. I'm Arun Rupneja, Dean of the PU School of Hospitality. Thank you for listening and see you next time.